On Tue, 24 Jun 2003 12:32:55 +0400, Artur Gasumiants
<asick@ctorstudio.com> wrote:

>Does GPRS in roaming actually work?

Yes.

[snip]

>Why GPRS was not working? Is there needed a special GPRS roaming
>agreement between operators as an addition to the standard roaming
>agreement?

Yes - this is exactly the problem. Each network has tried to get
roaming with at least one partner in each EU territory. Due to the
grouping of GSM operators around Europe multiple GPRS roaming
agreements are few.

It means that I can seamlessly roam from Orange GPRS UK to Belgium,
Holland, France and Spain - and I do this regularly. I just have to
make sure my handset has selected the correct GPRS network in those
Countries.

The situation will improve over time.

--
Hiram Hackenbacker

Hiram Hackenbacker wrote:

>>Why GPRS was not working? Is there needed a special GPRS roaming
>>agreement between operators as an addition to the standard roaming
>>agreement?
> Yes - this is exactly the problem. Each network has tried to get
> roaming with at least one partner in each EU territory. Due to the
> grouping of GSM operators around Europe multiple GPRS roaming
> agreements are few.
My case seems to be a bit different. I come from Russia which is not EU,
although GSM specifics is generally the same here. The most disappointed
thing is that my Russian operator has roaming agreements with almost
every operator in EU, but there's no GPRS access wherever I connect to.
I can use GPRS in my home network, of course. It just dies when I cross
a border. So, it looks like GPRS roaming works within the groups you're
talking about but does not work for subscribers from the rest of the world.

> It means that I can seamlessly roam from Orange GPRS UK to Belgium,
> Holland, France and Spain
Spain? Which Spanish network is Orange? I saw there only Vodafone, Amena
and Movistar. Vodafone was cheapest for international calls and Amena
was cheapest for SMS'ing with my SIM.

> and I do this regularly. I just have to make sure my handset has selected the correct GPRS network in those Countries.
That's good, but it remains Orange, right? Being different from country
to country, it remains a part of the whole. But what if the operators
are completely different? It seems there's no GPRS access for their
roamers by default in spite of the roaming agreement being previously
signed.

> The situation will improve over time.
I really hope. GPRS is getting quite popular, I guess they should
simplify it's usage all over the world, eventually.

Hiram Hackenbacker wrote:

> Taking Spain as an example (since I live there and the UK) Orange GPRS
> roams on the Movistar network. Prices for that roaming are set by
> Orange in the UK - they are universal of Western European Countries.
I see. They're the same except of the Swiss operator rate.

> See:- http://www.orange.co.uk/services/orange_gprs_table.html for
> details of Orange's roaming. This doesn't help you directly but gives
> you an idea of how few GPRS roaming agreements are currently in place.
Yeah, it's getting clear to me. Although some of the operators listed
are somehow participate in global Orange network (don't know how to call
it better), some seem to be completely foreign with higher prices. It
means there's another level of roaming agreements, namely it's GPRS
roaming agreement over a basic roaming agreement. I wish it could be as
simplified as SMS interchanging. Currently, there's a lack of GPRS
roaming agreements. For example, accordingly the list you wouldn't get
GPRS access in Norway, Sweden, Iceland and probably Luxembourg and in
all Eastern European Countries except of Poland. I guess it's a problem
that should be solved soon.

> These agreements work well with post-paid/contract customers because
> you do not need to change any configuration in the handset (and/or
> associated PDA/laptop).
So, you don't even have to change APN and login/password, do you? This
is really convenient.

On Tue, 24 Jun 2003 14:44:51 +0400, Artur Gasumiants
<asick@ctorstudio.com> wrote:

>> These agreements work well with post-paid/contract customers because
>> you do not need to change any configuration in the handset (and/or
>> associated PDA/laptop).
>So, you don't even have to change APN and login/password, do you? This
>is really convenient.

Correct - where the roaming agreement is in place no changes
whatsoever need to be made.

--
Hiram Hackenbacker

In <3ef82ba6@shknews01> Artur Gasumiants <asick@ctorstudio.com> writes:

>Hiram Hackenbacker wrote:

>> Taking Spain as an example (since I live there and the UK) Orange GPRS
>> roams on the Movistar network. Prices for that roaming are set by
>> Orange in the UK - they are universal of Western European Countries.
>I see. They're the same except of the Swiss operator rate.

>> See:- http://www.orange.co.uk/services/orange_gprs_table.html for
>> details of Orange's roaming. This doesn't help you directly but gives
>> you an idea of how few GPRS roaming agreements are currently in place.
>Yeah, it's getting clear to me. Although some of the operators listed
>are somehow participate in global Orange network (don't know how to call
>it better), some seem to be completely foreign with higher prices. It
>means there's another level of roaming agreements, namely it's GPRS
>roaming agreement over a basic roaming agreement. I wish it could be as
>simplified as SMS interchanging. Currently, there's a lack of GPRS
>roaming agreements. For example, accordingly the list you wouldn't get
>GPRS access in Norway, Sweden, Iceland and probably Luxembourg and in
>all Eastern European Countries except of Poland. I guess it's a problem
>that should be solved soon.

>> These agreements work well with post-paid/contract customers because
>> you do not need to change any configuration in the handset (and/or
>> associated PDA/laptop).
>So, you don't even have to change APN and login/password, do you? This
>is really convenient.
If the roaming provider You choose has a gprs-roaming agreement with Your
russian provider THey take Your packets destined for Your APN and send them
back to russia.

It is not really a EU thing I have used GPRS roaming in the US while my home
network is in Germany.

I think German provider E+ has a roaming agreement with a russian provider.

Konstantin
--
Dipl-Inf. Konstantin Agouros aka Elwood Blues. Internet: elwood@agouros.de
Otkerstr. 28, 81547 Muenchen, Germany. Tel +49 89 69370185
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Captain, this ship will not survive the forming of the cosmos." B'Elana Torres

Konstantinos Agouros wrote:

>>So, you don't even have to change APN and login/password, do you? This
>>is really convenient.
>
> If the roaming provider You choose has a gprs-roaming agreement with Your
> russian provider THey take Your packets destined for Your APN and send them
> back to russia.
Wow. It's made up a circle route, in fact. It's like an incoming call
handling in roaming, right? I mean if you're in Spain, for example, and
is opening a local Spanish site via GPRS roaming, your request goes to
Russia and then back to Spanish server and the site data goes to Russia
and back to your phone in Spain. The same as when a Spanish phone calls
yours the call goes to Russia and returns to your phone that might
physically be within the same network. Voice calls have some reasons to
be sent through a loop like that, but the Internet traffic loop
surprises me a bit. What good is to send data packets through a distant
gate and get them back when the Internet has no boundaries and separations?

> It is not really a EU thing I have used GPRS roaming in the US while my home
> network is in Germany.
> I think German provider E+ has a roaming agreement with a russian provider.
Well, I've actually found some data on it. Yes, it has. But it's only
Rus Beeline who has such an agreement. In fact, it's the only Russian
operator that has an official GPRS roaming agreements list. I've just
found it and it looks like the Orange partners list. As far as I know,
the first commercial GPRS service in Russia was started by Beeline, so
they had much time to sign those agreements. However, Beeline in
St.Petersburg is not perfect, it's 'third of the three'. That's why I'm
supposed to wait for my operator to sign GPRS roaming agreements,
eventually.

(Swedish) Telia and O2 has a GPRS Roaming agreement, I thinl?!

Well it works, anyway...

/ J

"Artur Gasumiants" <asick@ctorstudio.com> wrote in message
news:3ef82ba6@shknews01...
> Hiram Hackenbacker wrote:
>
> > Taking Spain as an example (since I live there and the UK) Orange GPRS
> > roams on the Movistar network. Prices for that roaming are set by
> > Orange in the UK - they are universal of Western European Countries.
> I see. They're the same except of the Swiss operator rate.
>
> > See:- http://www.orange.co.uk/services/orange_gprs_table.html for
> > details of Orange's roaming. This doesn't help you directly but gives
> > you an idea of how few GPRS roaming agreements are currently in place.
> Yeah, it's getting clear to me. Although some of the operators listed
> are somehow participate in global Orange network (don't know how to call
> it better), some seem to be completely foreign with higher prices. It
> means there's another level of roaming agreements, namely it's GPRS
> roaming agreement over a basic roaming agreement. I wish it could be as
> simplified as SMS interchanging. Currently, there's a lack of GPRS
> roaming agreements. For example, accordingly the list you wouldn't get
> GPRS access in Norway, Sweden, Iceland and probably Luxembourg and in
> all Eastern European Countries except of Poland. I guess it's a problem
> that should be solved soon.
>
> > These agreements work well with post-paid/contract customers because
> > you do not need to change any configuration in the handset (and/or
> > associated PDA/laptop).
> So, you don't even have to change APN and login/password, do you? This
> is really convenient.
>

Telia Sonera is making big noise about having GPRS Roaming with numbers of
operators in europe and U.S

By the way...when I used the O2 I didn't get accounted for traffic or volume
since the service wasn't publicly launch, but worked anyway.

/ J


"Artur Gasumiants" <asick@ctorstudio.com> wrote in message
news:3efab79b@shknews01...
> - wrote:
>
> > (Swedish) Telia and O2 has a GPRS Roaming agreement, I thinl?!
> Are O2 and Orange different operators or the same one? If O2=Orange then
> such the agreement is not documented (have a look at
> http://www.orange.co.uk/services/orange_gprs_table.html, there's no
> entry for Sweden). Otherwise you should notice that it was said as an
> example of GPRS roaming (or not roaming) with an Orange SIM.
>
> > Well it works, anyway...
> And it's definitely good.
>
> ...
> >>roaming agreements. For example, accordingly the list you wouldn't get
> >>GPRS access in Norway, Sweden, Iceland and probably Luxembourg and in
> >>all Eastern European Countries except of Poland. I guess it's a problem
> >>that should be solved soon.
>

In <3efab79b@shknews01> Artur Gasumiants <asick@ctorstudio.com> writes:

>- wrote:

>> (Swedish) Telia and O2 has a GPRS Roaming agreement, I thinl?!
>Are O2 and Orange different operators or the same one? If O2=Orange then
>such the agreement is not documented (have a look at
>http://www.orange.co.uk/services/orange_gprs_table.html, there's no
>entry for Sweden). Otherwise you should notice that it was said as an
>example of GPRS roaming (or not roaming) with an Orange SIM.
I think mmo2 and orange are competitors.

Konstantin
--
Dipl-Inf. Konstantin Agouros aka Elwood Blues. Internet: elwood@agouros.de
Otkerstr. 28, 81547 Muenchen, Germany. Tel +49 89 69370185
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Captain, this ship will not survive the forming of the cosmos." B'Elana Torres

Konstantinos Agouros wrote:

>>>(Swedish) Telia and O2 has a GPRS Roaming agreement, I thinl?!
>>Are O2 and Orange different operators or the same one? If O2=Orange then
>>such the agreement is not documented (have a look at
>>http://www.orange.co.uk/services/orange_gprs_table.html, there's no
>>entry for Sweden). Otherwise you should notice that it was said as an
>>example of GPRS roaming (or not roaming) with an Orange SIM.
>
> I think mmo2 and orange are competitors.
I've made a search... Yeah, they are actually competitors. O2 (Cellnet?)
has 234 10 code in UK and Orange has 234 33. In terms of GPRS roaming it
means if you're an Orange subscriber and is going to use GPRS in Sweden,
you'd have to buy an extra SIM from O2 or a local Swedish SIM. The same
as I'm supposed to get a Rus Beeline contract to get the GPRS roaming
working in Europe.