I wondered why emails from my Mum were getting junked by Outlook - turns out
Sky's move to Google Mail hasn't just resulted in a change to their
POP3/SMTP settings.

When you send email via smtp.tools.sky.com, they now strip the email address
portion of the From: line and replace it with the relevant @sky.com email
address.

I'm frankly amazed that Sky/Google are willing to modify STMP headers
without making it explicit to the end user.

Via their Control Panel they do offer the option of setting up multiple
email addresses which at least ensures the From: line is unmolested but they
stil insist on inserting a "Sender:" and "Return-path:" into the SMTP
envelope based upon the Sky account holder.

For households that have users sending emails from multiple
accounts/devices, it means their sent messages look particularly ugly when
they arrive in an Outlook inbox:

"Dad Bloggs [j.bloggs@sky.com] on behalf of Mum Bloggs [mum@something.else]"

I can see myself recommending that Mum, Dad, sister, in-laws etc. all shell
out ten quid a year on a Clara account just to get access to their SMTP
server.

On 12/02/2008 in message <1202828369.87515.0@iris.uk.clara.net> Grant wrote:

>When you send email via smtp.tools.sky.com, they now strip the email
>address portion of the From: line and replace it with the relevant
>@sky.com email address.
>
>I'm frankly amazed that Sky/Google are willing to modify STMP headers
>without making it explicit to the end user.

So if you want to use an email address from a domain you own, say
me@mydomain.co.uk, you are stuffed???

--
Jeff Gaines Damerham Hampshire UK
640k ought to be enough for anyone.
(Bill Gates, 1981)

Jeff Gaines wrote:
>
> So if you want to use an email address from a domain you own, say
> me@mydomain.co.uk, you are stuffed???

Almost.

If you jump through some configuration hoops, you can send email with the
followng headers:

From: me@mydomain.co.uk
Return-Path: account.name@sky.com
Sender: account.name@sky.com

The latter two are injected by Sky and apparently not optional. They cause
certain mail clients to display "From <sender> sent on behalf of <from>".

On 12/02/2008 in message <1202844519.91154.0@iris.uk.clara.net> Grant wrote:

>Jeff Gaines wrote:
>>
>>So if you want to use an email address from a domain you own, say
>>me@mydomain.co.uk, you are stuffed???
>
>Almost.

[snipped]

OK, I wasn't considering Sky and certainly won't now! This is going to
become a real issue as more and more people set up their own domains.

--
Jeff Gaines Damerham Hampshire UK
The facts, although interesting, are irrelevant

"Jeff Gaines" <jgaines_newsid@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:xn0fmcwlqlj3df002@news.individual.net...
> On 12/02/2008 in message <1202844519.91154.0@iris.uk.clara.net> Grant
> wrote:
>
>>Jeff Gaines wrote:
>>>
>>>So if you want to use an email address from a domain you own, say
>>>me@mydomain.co.uk, you are stuffed???
>>
>>Almost.
>
> [snipped]
>
> OK, I wasn't considering Sky and certainly won't now! This is going to
> become a real issue as more and more people set up their own domains.

Its not a problem, just don't use Sky's smtp server.

On 12/02/2008 in message <fosvkq$att$1@news.datemas.de> dennis@home wrote:

>Its not a problem, just don't use Sky's smtp server.

OK - a follow up :-)

I have 4 domains hosted, each with their own mail server, my own ISP is
Demon.

If I tell my email program (Barca 2) to connect to one of my own mail
servers (but over my Demon connection) to send email how much of Demon's
service am I using? I have been told that I will still be connected to
Port 25 at Demon so any Sky-like (or AOL or BT like) restrictions they
imposed would still apply. I don't have an issues at the moment, Demon
don't apply restrictions, but it would be a key factor if I wanted to
change ISP.

--
Jeff Gaines Damerham Hampshire UK
There is absolutely no substitute for a genuine lack of preparation

On Tuesday 12 February 2008 8:41 pm, in MID
<xn0fmcx8bmfs3k003@news.individual.net>, Jeff Gaines
(jgaines_newsid@yahoo.co.uk) wrote:

> On 12/02/2008 in message <fosvkq$att$1@news.datemas.de> dennis@home wrote:
>
>>Its not a problem, just don't use Sky's smtp server.
>
> OK - a follow up :-)
>
> I have 4 domains hosted, each with their own mail server, my own ISP is
> Demon.
>
> If I tell my email program (Barca 2) to connect to one of my own mail
> servers (but over my Demon connection) to send email how much of Demon's
> service am I using? I have been told that I will still be connected to
> Port 25 at Demon so any Sky-like (or AOL or BT like) restrictions they
> imposed would still apply.

What BT-like restrictions is that then ?

--
Ian...

On 12/02/2008 in message <5_6dnQRp-pWFry_anZ2dnUVZ8tXinZ2d@bt.com> ian
wrote:

>What BT-like restrictions is that then ?

My understanding is if you use BT as your isp you can only send email from
your BT (or BT/Yahoo) email address, they block other email with any other
email address from going (as do AOL). You can currently get round it by
switching from port 25 to another port.

However, that didn't come from a technical group so any clarification
would be good.

--
Jeff Gaines Damerham Hampshire UK
There are 10 types of people in the world, those who do binary and those
who don't.

Jeff Gaines wrote:
> On 12/02/2008 in message <5_6dnQRp-pWFry_anZ2dnUVZ8tXinZ2d@bt.com> ian
> wrote:
>
>> What BT-like restrictions is that then ?
>
> My understanding is if you use BT as your isp you can only send email
> from your BT (or BT/Yahoo) email address, they block other email with
> any other email address from going (as do AOL). You can currently get
> round it by switching from port 25 to another port.
>
> However, that didn't come from a technical group so any clarification
> would be good.
>

Is it a good thing or a bad thing? I tend to think it is a good thing -
as the "from" address represents the account of the sender and usually
matches the domain in the message ID :-) In addition, it seems that some
organisations have spam filters that reject e-mails where the "reply to"
address does not use the same domain as the "from" address (something
I've used as a "family" e-mail filter) :-(

--
PeeGee

The reply address is a spam trap. All mail is reported as spam.
"Nothing should be able to load itself onto a computer without the
knowledge or consent of the computer user. Software should also be able
to be removed from a computer easily."
Peter Cullen, Microsoft Chief Privacy Strategist (Computing 18 Aug 05)

On Tue, 12 Feb 2008, Jeff Gaines wrote:-

>If I tell my email program (Barca 2) to connect to one of my own mail
>servers (but over my Demon connection) to send email how much of
>Demon's service am I using?

That depends. Does your mail server send direct or does it relay through
Demons servers?

If it goes directly, it will use the wires and pass through Demons
routers but it won't go through their servers, and no trace of any of
Demons servers will appear in the mail headers.

If it goes through Demons servers, there will be Received: headers in
the mail showing which servers it passed through. E.g. post.demon.co.uk,
followed by whichever one actually does the delivery.

As an example, mail I send goes from my client, Turnpike, to my mail
server, Sendmail. Sendmail will then look up where it's supposed to send
the mail to and pass it on to the correct mail server. The only header
containing a Demon address is the one generated by the receiving server
saying that it received the mail from my server.

The only exceptions to this is for AOL. A few (several?) years ago, AOL
started accepting mail sent from IP addresses that were either an ISP or
business mail server, or were on their whitelist. While my IP address
was added to their whitelist, I had added an entry to my mailers list so
any mail sent to AOL would go via Demons servers. Since then, the only
person I was in contact with that had an AOL address has moved on, and I
no longer need the forwarding rule, it's left there just in case.

>I have been told that I will still be connected to Port 25 at Demon so
>any Sky-like (or AOL or BT like) restrictions they imposed would still
>apply.

Only if your mail server is configured to forward mail to Demons
servers.


Regards,
David Bolt

--
Team Acorn: http://www.distributed.net/ OGR-P2 @ ~100Mnodes RC5-72 @ ~15Mkeys
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